In the News:
*small group discussion on each article for first hour: discuss main points, come up with questions to ask the large group
Mettler
Questions:
Pew: 5 Key Findings on Debt
Thoughts:
Real Student Debt Crisis
Thoughts:
Thoughts:
Freedman: American colleges force for inequality
Thoughts:
Thoughts:
*ask large group which questions were most interesting to you, what topics do you want to address?
Return to Mahmud
Return to Mettler
- For-Profit Colleges Accused of Fraud Still Receive U.S. Funds: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/business/for-profit-colleges-accused-of-fraud-still-receive-us-funds.html?emc=edit_th_20151013&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=69842174&_r=2
*small group discussion on each article for first hour: discuss main points, come up with questions to ask the large group
Mettler
Questions:
- Is there a disconnect between the picture of college that high schoolers & others have as an ideal, a component of the American Dream, a path to prosperity…the reality of what college is & what it confers?
- Is there no longer a common interpretation of democracy, to what extent might the absence of this common definition interact w/ political trends that Mettler describes (plutocracy)?
- Can we discuss Martin & Mahmud in context of larger economy?
Pew: 5 Key Findings on Debt
Thoughts:
- Curious about what raw data was/what was asked in order to create graphs
- Discussion of the worth of college
- where do students spend money, and how/in what contexts are students paid?
- Should there be an institutionalization of paid internships? Where are the lines drawn between learning in the classroom and learning in other spaces, and what should students get money back on?
- where do students spend money, and how/in what contexts are students paid?
- Since 25-32 year olds were the ones interviewed, does that affect questions about “satisfaction with education”? Will their opinions change in the next 10-20 years? Particularly if there is an expectation to have multiple careers in that time.
- Do these findings suggest other models for length/timing of college?
- Status quo seems somewhat arbitrary, the idea that it has to get done in one block of time (4 years or 2 years)
- Status quo seems somewhat arbitrary, the idea that it has to get done in one block of time (4 years or 2 years)
Real Student Debt Crisis
Thoughts:
- Freedman’s amenities relate to Lehman’s ideas about no-frills education
- Would more/better pre-college advising help steer students better, including those past high school?
- Since debt comes mostly from for-profit colleges, what kind of advising should be available to students that are more likely to go to those schools?
- What input do students already have in making that decision, how aware are they of the statistics regarding debt and retention?
- What input do students already have in making that decision, how aware are they of the statistics regarding debt and retention?
Thoughts:
- very dense, needed to unpack by defining key terms (these terms also help to answer the questions below
- reverse red-lining/subprime lending
- democratization of finance
- aggregate demand/asset growth vs. wage growth
- psychopolitical impact of chronic debt
- neoliberal counterrevolution vs. Keynesian economics
- shock therapy
- reverse red-lining/subprime lending
- How does the current student debt crisis mimick the housing bubble in 2008?
- How does the current student crisis affect people of varying wealth?
Freedman: American colleges force for inequality
Thoughts:
- There is an amenities arms race, which students are complicit in
- A subtle/”under wraps” lack of desire by institutions of higher education to accept/enroll students of low income, instead focusing disproportionately on higher-paying students
- Highered is no longer the great equalizer, but rather a system of social stratification
- Government funding needs to step in re:
- State funding of public institutions
- federal funding individual students
- suggestion by Freedman to incentivize lower-income students over amenities
- The labor market has a powerful impetus for inciting change in highered
- State funding of public institutions
- If the government were to incentivize institutions to reach out to/accept/enroll students of low income, would public/social values concerning what higher education should be (i.e. focus on amenities) shift?
Thoughts:
- sense that HigherEd actually does pay off leads to fulfillment
- without a college degree, the focus is only on day-to-day functioning
- college leads to career prospects
- because of internalization of neoliberalism (a la Mahmud), students now have an established expectation to go to college
- there are lots of different reasons why students take on debt, in relation to class, race, community, family, etc.
- Distance from college in years adds to annoyance of having debt; idea that one is “worse than predecessors, better than peers”
- How is $30k of student debt different from $30k of auto loan debt? How do we value them differently? Are we more willing to take out loans for one over the other?
- To what extent is a college education like (or not like) other commodities?
- public notion is that college education isn’t just for your own good (like a car), but also for good of society, therefore having the same burden for both seems unfair
- public notion is that college education isn’t just for your own good (like a car), but also for good of society, therefore having the same burden for both seems unfair
*ask large group which questions were most interesting to you, what topics do you want to address?
Return to Mahmud
- defining psycho-political impact of chronic debt
- trying to get at explanation of how once you’re in debt, there is a vicious cycle of susceptibility to stressors like dealing with the penal system, taking out more debt, refinancing, dealing with the stigma of debt, impact of “being in the wrong” as told by the government
- political side is how all that relates to income and role as a player/contributor to society
- inability to declare bankruptcy on student debt
- difficult to conceive of debt as something other than a problem that one has incurred on themselves
- trying to get at explanation of how once you’re in debt, there is a vicious cycle of susceptibility to stressors like dealing with the penal system, taking out more debt, refinancing, dealing with the stigma of debt, impact of “being in the wrong” as told by the government
- reverse red-lining
- sense that you get most of the money required to run society from those who have the least to give (vs. the wealthiest contributing the most), and there are a lot of them
- sense that you get most of the money required to run society from those who have the least to give (vs. the wealthiest contributing the most), and there are a lot of them
- Keynesian notion
- economy grows/benefits when people buy things, more aggregate demand is good for the economy; to combat issues normally, raise worker wage, get more workers, and create more product
- when there is a crisis and people stop buying things, there has to be cutbacks because aggregate demand is down; solve this problem by government spending (which forces an increase in demand)
- in the 1960s, there was an idea that alternative to combat crisis is supply-side
- increase supply by reducing taxes on the wealthiest, who will in turn make more factories and hire more workers...this philosophy is what leads to neoliberalism
- *see blackboard slides for more information on this*
- increase supply by reducing taxes on the wealthiest, who will in turn make more factories and hire more workers...this philosophy is what leads to neoliberalism
- consumer credit goes crazy after 1970s, allows people to buy more (increase demand) without increasing wages
- argument is economy can’t function without someone taking on debt
- e.g. when mortgage debt had to go down in ‘08 crisis, student loan debt went up
- e.g. when mortgage debt had to go down in ‘08 crisis, student loan debt went up
- debt is what allows the economy to grow as long as there are no increases in wages or benefits
- makes little sense because why would banks want to loan to poorest people?
- also need low interest rates for a thriving economy (e.g. 0 interest right now because if we did have interest there would be major problems)
- economy grows/benefits when people buy things, more aggregate demand is good for the economy; to combat issues normally, raise worker wage, get more workers, and create more product
- student debt is unique from all other debt because you can’t get rid of it
- anyone know why this is? no, seems to be status quo...someone find out
- anyone know why this is? no, seems to be status quo...someone find out
- there is an entire population that does not fit into this schema...those that don’t go to college, get jobs, and eventually end up in jail; creates culture of prison pipeline that just sets people to the side
- privatization is reflected in bailout, when Obama paid for those who took on risk of debt and got off scot-free
Return to Mettler
- Re: question of a disconnect between ideal picture of college and real college experience
- e.g. U of Phoenix commercials -- watch thinking people are getting a good education
- lots of people getting blindsided by for-profits, which affects everyone but particularly low-income people
- from guidance counselor: working with students on daily basis with view of what they want
- at her high school, no one goes to for-profit colleges; 96% go to four-year institutions; students don’t worry about student debt, just expect it to work out okay (usually because of help of parents)
- students are more concerned with major than they used to be, e.g. thinking of taking on STEM majors even that is not their primary interest in order to have security when graduating
- at her high school, no one goes to for-profit colleges; 96% go to four-year institutions; students don’t worry about student debt, just expect it to work out okay (usually because of help of parents)
- possibility that while parents also had to deal with debt, debt levels may be a little bit more unreasonable today, so maybe the idea of the intensity of it has not caught up yet and that’s why parents support their children in taking on debt
- even with all this debt, college still technically has value -- can you afford not to go?
- telling high school students that have prepared for four+ years that maybe it’s not valuable is “tantamount to an existential crisis”
- telling high school students that have prepared for four+ years that maybe it’s not valuable is “tantamount to an existential crisis”
- e.g. U of Phoenix commercials -- watch thinking people are getting a good education
- cultural shift needed to have high school students less desire amenities
- college students aren’t making connections with each other recognize that we all have a lot of debt
- from alum: friend Luke Herrine leads Debt Collective -- http://blog.debtcollective.org/corinthian-100-demanding-debt-cancellation-in-washington-dc/
- students are individualists in looking at college and look at what school offers for themselves rather than considering how other students will impact their experience
- neoliberalism is engrained in all of our minds individually, needs to be unlearned
- what is the balance between “selling out”/being complicit in problematic systems/structures and doing good?
- what is the balance between “selling out”/being complicit in problematic systems/structures and doing good?